Siddha-Deha and Nitya-Līlā

Question: My Gurudeva and you both state that our siddha-deha is inactive until it is actuated when we attain svarūpa-siddhi. I like your example of the siddha-deha decorating the spiritual world in a passive way like a flower decorates an altar. Also, I love the example my Gurudeva gives of wonderful dress, not fitting us YET and waiting for us.

Now, someone else told me that there is the linear time conception of the sādhaka versus the eternal time conception in the spiritual world. So, here, as sādhakas, it will take sādhaka A, for example, 100 lifetimes to attain svarūpa-siddhi and for example, sādhaka B attains svarūpa-siddhi in maybe two or three lifetimes…

Are the siddha-dehas for sādhaka A and B really “inactive” until they attain svarūpa-siddhi?

Can we ask the question, “What is our siddha-deha doing in the meantime, while we are trying to attain svarūpa-siddhi? Is this time period of attaining perfection also there in the spiritual world?

Isn´t the conception of eternal time not completely different from our material linear time? 

Is my siddha-deha really inactive RIGHT NOW, this moment, there in the spiritual world, where there is no linear time perspective? Please, could you help me to understand this better?

Answer: What is linear time? Is material time not eternal? What is material time? How can Kṛṣṇa enter into material time when He comes on earth? Does His time match with our material time? Think about these questions.

From the spiritual point of view, there is no duality. Duality is only in our experience. From our point of view also, at present, your siddha-deha is inactive in the spiritual world. Just because we have a dualistic view, the reality does not change. 

Material time is also ultimately eternal because it also goes through cycles. 


Question: Is siddha-praṇālī something that is eternally existing, our identity, or is it something that our guru gives us? Does our guru simply create the eleven points of our mañjarī identity and then tell us to meditate on it, and thus gradually through meditation we CREATE that identity?

In other words, if it doesn’t require a guru to meditate and “reach into the spiritual platform to find out our siddha-praṇālī,” then couldn’t any guru give us siddha-praṇālī, since technically it would not require a liberated guru who is capable of reaching into the spiritual realm to access that information, since it is not pre-existing?

I hope I’ve made my question clear. It’s a bit complex. Basically does our guru just “make up” those eleven points of mañjarī siddha-praṇālī?

Answer: First of all, do not confuse the term siddha-praṇālī with siddha-svarūpa.

Your question is about the latter. Siddha-svarūpa is not an imagination. It is eternally existing in the spiritual realm.  That is why it is called siddha-svarūpa—the svarūpa that is already existing. It is revealed to a qualified sādhaka by a qualified guru.

Question: What happens to the sādhanā-siddhas once they go to Goloka? At this point there is no difference between them and the nitya-siddhas. You explain in Bhagavat Sandarbha that there is no memory of prakṛti, as there would be no prākṛta citta to store those saṁskāras, the citta having returned to prakṛti along with the mahābhūta body upon attaining the siddha-svarūpa. So does this mean that the sādhanā-siddhas who were once taṭastha-śakti, now become antaraṅgā-śakti?  How can they *become* this if the antaraṅgā is nitya (an-ādi and an-anta)?

Answer: The sādhanā-siddhas do not become antaraṅgā-śakti. They remain taṭastha but imbued with antaraṅgā or bhakti śakti. Thus they function just like nitya-siddhas, because it is antaraṅgā-śakti that inspires them. Yet, the distinction between sādhanasiddha and nitya-siddha remains. Nitya-siddhas are associates of Kṛṣṇa and they cannot be replaced. Moreover, there is no desire in any devotee of Kṛṣṇa in Goloka to become someone else. They are all satisfied in their service. There is no competition in the material sense because they are free from jealousy. 


Question: In the prakata-līlā, each līlā is ongoing in a different universe.  So in this sense, it is nitya somewhere.  But since there are no different universes in the ādhyātmika Goloka, you mentioned that the līlās there are ongoing through Kṛṣṇa’s prakāśa forms.  Does this mean there are unlimited prakāśa forms in Goloka and each one is performing each moment of each līlā infinitely?  So e.g., is a prakāśa form always breaking the butter pot, and another simultaneously eating the butter always etc., etc?  If so, are these distinct prakāśa forms all concealed from each other along with their respective līlā participants?  Put differently, where are these prakāśa forms with respect to each other, since there are no distinct universes in Goloka?  I know I am projecting a time/space limitation on the infinite, and I understand this is all acintya, but it seems a bit of a clumsy way of conceiving of things.

Answer: Yes, there are unlimited prakāśas in Goloka. Just to give you an idea: When Kṛṣṇa married 16,000 princesses, He did not do so in one place but in separate palaces simultaneously. That means He expanded Himself into 16,000 forms. Now, that does not mean that only He expanded, but his parents, Balarāma, Uddhava and all other associates also expanded. Each place had a big marriage party that included His family members. But He and His associates in one place did not know that this was going on in 16,000 places simultaneously. Each of the 16,000 prakāśas thought that it was only happening in one place. Yet, He does not have 16,000 Balarāmas for brothers. So what happened in this marriage līlā can similarly be applied also to all other līlās in Goloka. It is mind-boggling—that is called acintya, inconceivable to the mind—but can be known from śāstra or bhakti-samādhi.

If you don’t find conceiving of the prakat-līla clumsy that is going on eternally in different universes, then why do you think the same is clumsy in Goloka? Just as the material energy is infinite, the spiritual energy is also infinite. 


Question: If a person becomes perfected and enters nitya-līlā, it is said that all siddhis reside in such a person. Is one aware of these potencies all the time or is one aware only in the moment that they are needed, as in the case of Hanumān? 

Answer: The purpose of siddhis in the spiritual world is only for serving Bhagavān. If the siddhis are needed to serve, they become manifest, otherwise they remain unmanifest. If it is necessary for the gopīs to remain illiterate, they remain illiterate, but if it is needed for them to have a philosophical dialogue, then they will have that knowledge. The purpose is all about what is befitting Kṛṣṇa’s līlā. If it is befitting to be illiterate then it happens that way, if Kṛṣṇa wants a philosophical dialogue, it will then manifest accordingly.   

Question:  Is it correct to conclude that they are not aware of that knowledge? 

Answer:  If there is a need for them to be aware, they are aware, and if there is no need for them to be aware, they are not aware.  Kṛṣṇa is also not aware of the fact that He is God, because if He thinks that He is God, He cannot play with His friends and consider them as equal to Him.  When there is a need for Him to act like God, He can have the appropriate feeling.  Otherwise, He thinks that he is just a cowherd boy. Therefore, Vallabha Ācārya divided māyā into three categories: sva mohini māyā, svajana mohini māyā and vimukha-jana mohini māyā— māyā that bewilders Kṛṣṇa, māyā that bewilders His devotees and māyā that bewilders the non-devotees. Therefore, everybody is in bewilderment. The first two are part of antaraṅga śakti and the third is part of bahiranga śakti.  

When Kṛṣṇa speaks Bhagavad Gītā, He has the ego that He is God, but when he is driving the chariot, He doesn’t think like that. He thinks, “I am the friend of Arjuna.” He remains in that mood, otherwise as God He would not drive Arjuna’s chariot.  

Even in our own lives, we have different identities and perform corresponding activities. In office, one has a certain identity and when one comes home, one has another identity, and thus one’s mood and functions are different.  

Question:  Arjuna also has an ego accordingly, because if He thinks this is God who is driving his chariot, he couldn’t function. 

Answer: That’s why he asks for forgiveness when he sees the Universal Form of Kṛṣṇa and understands that Kṛṣṇa is God. By seeing the Universal Form, his mood changed, but he did not appreciate it, therefore he prayed to Kṛṣṇa to revert back to His human form and mood. That is more relishable. That is why Kṛṣṇa’s naralīlā, or human-like pastime, is considered as the highest manifestation of love.

Notify me of new articles

Comments ( 5 )
  1. Stoka Krsna Dasa

    Thanks so much Babaji for putting such difficult and inconceivable esoteric subject matter in such a simple and easily understandable language.
    Your explanations and answers have brought in clarity to things which for most people remain a mystery and thus becoming a matter of imagination and speculation.

  2. Vāyu.

    When the guru applies jñānāñjana or the ointment of knowledge in our eyes everything acquires a new meaning, so we can contemplate infinity and eternity wherever we look in the material or spiritual realm. But in the process of obtaining our siddha-svarūpa, is it possible that this special look allows us to contemplate each verse of the Bhagavad-gītā full of multiple meanings related to the Kṛṣṇa of Vraja-dhāma and not only to the Kṛṣṇa of Dvārakā?

    • Babaji Post author

      I have no such experience, nor have I heard anything like this.
      But may be some guru can give such a vision. It is not to my knowledge.

  3. wavefunction_collapse

    Regarding the questioner quote “You explain in Bhagavat Sandarbha that there is no memory of prakṛti, as there would be no prākṛta citta to store those saṁskāras…”
    Wht is prakrita-chitta? material mind you mean? Like how in the present material vessel, i dont remember the fact that i was born before in another material body, human or otherwise, with the corresponding mind? That makes sense to me.
    However, the last incarnation of the sadhana-siddha, the one where he remembers his past lives a bit, meets his Guru, rediscovers his mission should he choose to accept it, to serve in Golok….if the “prakrit-chitta” cannot be carried over then does he forget his Guru? And only remembers his Guru as the Dasanudasa of the Manjari he is serving? (i say “he” only to not introduce additional complexity)
    If the Nitya siddha and the sadhana siddha retain their nityaness and sadhan-ness, then it seems that the sadha-siddha in golok should know that he is sadhana-siddha. Or some part of him knows. That part, surely should know his past life on Earth.
    I dont see what purpose would be served by wiping the slate clean per se. The sadhana siddhas journey and the Nirya siddhas journey to Golok is completely different? The hard journey has make the jiva who he is, it has moulded and shaped him. Once the goal is attained, suddenly he has no gratitude to the material nature, in whose womb called Earth he transformed himself from a human caterpillar to an immortal golden butterfly in Golok? The butterfly, may have no memory of being a caterpillar consciously, but in its very molecules, it knows. Butterflies dont pop out of the sky fully made, and no sadhana siddha jiva just pops into Golok.
    I say, we dont really know what we think we know. The butterfly may not know, but you know. Intelligence knows. The sadhana siddha jiva has access to the Mind of God. To have a neutered conception of Golok is beneath even us lowly humans.

    • Malatimanjari Post author

      Yes, he has no past memory because he has no material chitta and all the samskaras of past memories are stored in the chitta. He/She will be united with the guru as her yuthesvari without awareness of his previous guruship because this knowledge is not needed in the nitya-lila. Krsna could give this knowledge if it served any purpose, but it doesn’t and therefore there is no need of this previous awareness. All is arranged by yoga-maya.

      There is no ontological difference between tatastha-sakti sadhana-siddhas and nitya-siddhas. There is no part left that retains anything because, as mentioned above, in the siddha-deha there is no trace of any prakritic chitta.

      and except for the fact that one is tatastha-shakti and the other one is antar

  • Satyanarayana Dasa

    Satyanarayana Dasa
  • Daily Bhakti Byte

    When we come to spiritual life, we want the effect of spiritual life without changing our self. We generally make changes externally. This does not change our life because we are still looking through the colored glasses of our samskaras. Our vision is impaired and we don’t want to rectify it.

    — Babaji Satyanarayana Dasa
  • If you want to donate to Jiva Institute, please contact
  • Subscribe

  • Article Archive

  • Chronological Archive

© 2017 JIVA.ORG. All rights reserved.