Questions on Sancita karma, Two Types of Sayujya
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Questions on Sancita karma, Two Types of Sayujya

Sancita karma

Question: In your last article, you wrote: “Universal dissolution destroys only the gross and subtle bodies of the ātmās, who enter unharmed into the body of Lord Viṣṇu. But the accumulated karma (sancita) of each ātmā persists even during the period of dissolution.”

Where is sancita situated? It cannot be in the subtle and gross bodies – these are destroyed.

Answer: Sancita karma is stored in the prakriti and lies there inactive. Prakriti is the unmanifest state or the causal state of matter.

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Two Types of Sayujya

Question: I have a question about AtmasAmya liberation in the context of the five standard liberations, specifically, that of Agha in X.12.38, (and also Sisupala 74.45, and Dantavakra, 78.8-10).  Rupa seems to correlate it with sarupya, in BRS.2.280.

But merging into Krishna’s body seems different from the sarupya as conventionally understood as attaining the same form as Vishnu in a Vaikuntha dham.  So I am wondering whether atmasamya could also be understood as a variant of sayujya (i.e., not the more standard understanding of sayujya as the attainment of non-personal atman/brahman, but a variant wherein the atman merges into Krishna’s body).  I seem to have encountered a reference in this regard, but cannot locate it.  Are you aware of any discussion of this in any commentary?

Answer: There are two types of sayujya – Brahma-sayujya and Bhagavad-sayjya. This is described in Priti-sandarbha, anuccheda 15.  In Bhagavad-sayjya the atma enters into Krsna’s body and remains there relishing the svarupananda of Krsna. Of course Vaisnvas do not like both types of sayujya, but Bhagavad-sayujya is considered even worse because one is trying to enjoy Bhagavan.

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8 Comments

  • scooty ram July 14, 2014

    Namaste:

    Its mentioned ” In Bhagavad-sayjya the atma enters into Krsna’s body and remains there relishing the svarupananda of Krsna…Bhagavad-sayujya is considered even worse because one is trying to enjoy Bhagavan.”

    Is not the body, the highest object of mamatva ?

    If mamatva mean a sense of “MINE”, we see that we identify maximum with our body . Of all posessiveness , posessiveness towards ones own body is maximum.
    Identification with this body only gives rise to all other relationships and attachments.
    This being so, when sayujya is spoken as becoming part of krishna’s body, will not this imply the sense of mamatva Krishna has to this jiva? Instead of taking this example in literal sense, does it not convey the sense of intimacy Krishna feels with this jiva?

    Also in soul-body relationship, soul is swatantra(doer enjoyer etc) and body is paratantra(field of activity , object of enjoyment). Soul is the enjoyer and it enjoys through the body. Body is the source of enjoyment. It works towards giving pleasure to the soul.This being the case, to say a jiva has become Lord’s body will only imply Jiva has no swartha and only parartha towards Krishna.

    I could not understand how bhagavad sayujya is condemned. Where is selfish enjoyment of bhagavan in this ?

    Please kindly clarify.

    Regards

    • snd July 24, 2014

      Question:I could not understand how bhagavad sayujya is condemned. Where is selfish enjoyment of bhagavan in this ?

      Answer:Friend, you have not understood what is bhakti and what is sefishness.
      Bhakti means having no desire except desire to act for the pleasure of bhagavan. Selfishness means having no desire except desire for one’s own pleasure.
      Do you see the difference?

    • snd July 24, 2014

      Question: Is not the body the highest object of mamatva ?

      Answer: Yes, for ignorant fools. Not for learned persons who have viveka between matter and spirit.

      Question:This being so, when sayujya is spoken as becoming part of krishna’s body, will not this imply the sense of mamatva Krishna has to this jiva? Instead of taking this example in literal sense, does it not convey the sense of intimacy Krishna feels with this jiva?

      Answer:The jiva in bhagavad sayujya does not become the body of Krsna. It only identifies with His body. So Krsna does not consider the jiva as His body and even if your theory of mamatva is applied to Krsna, still He does not feel mamatva to jiva, because the jiva is not part of His body. Krsna’s body is His internal potency and jiva is His intermediate potency. Krsna is not in ignorance of this. He has viveka. Of course He likes all jivas because they are His energy. But His principle of reciprocation is – ye yathA mAm prapadyante – as one approaches Him, He reciprocates accordingly. If the jiva in sayujya has no mamatva for Krsna, then Krsna also has no mamatva.

      Mamatva means love. Love means desire to serve to please. This the jiva certainly does not have that. He has desire to enjoy. So where is the mamatva?

      Question:I could not understand how bhagavad sayujya is condemned. Where is selfish enjoyment of bhagavan in this ?

      Answer: Friend, you have not understood what is bhakti and what is selfishness. Bhakti means having no desire except desire to act for the pleasure of bhagavan. Selfishness means having no desire except desire for one’s own pleasure. Do you see the difference?

  • scooty ram July 25, 2014

    Namaste
    Thank you for the response.
    I think I have failed in explaining what I wanted to convey. I conveyed body soul relationship as a concept of explaining how one(body)exists solely for the purpose of another(soul). It must not be taken literally. In ignorance , soul exists for the pleasure of body. In knowledge, it is vice-versa.

    Hence when I define body as that which acts exclusively for the pleasure of soul, then when jivas are compared to bodies, it is implied that they have no desire except to desire to act for the pleasure of their soul (bhagavan).

    Regards

  • snd July 25, 2014

    If you think you failed last time, i think you have failed completely this time. I do not understand at all what you are try to say.

    You write: “Hence when I define body as that which acts exclusively for the pleasure of soul, then when jivas are compared to bodies, it is implied that they have no desire except to desire to act for the pleasure of their soul (bhagavan).”

    This is beyond my head. How body acts completely for the pleasure of soul? This floors my body down completely and it refuses to act for the pleasure of its soul!!

    Regards

    • malati July 26, 2014

      Reply by Scooty Ram:

      Namaste

      Thank you for responding again to my queries.

      You mentioned : “How body acts completely for the pleasure of soul? ”

      My Response : Upanishads brings about the concept of Brahman and Jiva in terms of Body-soul relationship.

      yasya Atma sarIram . – Atma is the body of Brahman.

      Body soul(sarira sariri) concept is composed of following three aspects.

      AdheyatvA : Existence of body is due to the soul ie. soul supports
      the body. If soul ceases to exist , body also ceases to exist.

      niyamyatvA : Body derives its existence from soul(adheyatvA) and it is also controlled by the soul. So , body acts as per the will/desires of soul.

      seshatvA : Not only that body/sarira is supported & controlled by sariri(the soul), it exists only for the pleasure of soul ie. soul is body’s master.

      Hence body acts completely for the pleasure of the soul.

      —-
      I think the following examples(to show devotees are part of Lord body anf therby serve the Lord and give Him pleasure) will help me explain the subject matter more :

      1. Srivatsa – Part of Krishna’s body is a cetana – Sri.
      2. Conch – Ornament of the Lord – Poigai alwar
      3. Sudarsana – Weapon of the Lord – Sudarsana alwar.

      Body, dress, weapons and ornaments of the Lord are part of His svarūpa. His devotees mentioned above are part of Him.

      Hence becoming the body of the Lord gives pleasure to the Lord.

      Please kindly let me know your thoughts.

      Regards

    • malati July 26, 2014

      Reply by Babaji:

      Scooty, the examples of body, dress and ornaments which you have given cannot be compared to the jiva who has attained bhagavad sayujya.
      Srivtsa or Sri, Conch or Poigai Alwar and Sudarshana, and the Alwar by the same name, have dasya bhava towards Bhagavan. They do not identify with Bhagavan’s body as the jiva in saujya mukti does. Therefore, your example is dissimilar and thus inapplicable.

      Second point to be considered is that Sri etc are not jiva-tattva, i.e. tatastha sakti, but are part of antaranga-sakti or the internal potency. You yourself have clearly and rightly stated that they are part of His svarupa. But being part of svarupa, they also maintain a seperate ego of dasya. They are not exactly the same as the actual body of bhagavan.

      Thirdly, no jiva can acquire that position. Sri and others are direct expansions of Bhagavan, and are worshipable like Him.

      I understand the principle of sarira and sariri, sesha and seshi, as you have beautifully explained above. But I think you are trying to misapply that principle in case of sayujya mukta jiva. The Upanisadic principle of yasya atma sariram is implying service to bhagavan and not trying to enjoy Him. The part is meant for the whole and controlled by the whole, and not vice-versa. In sayujuya mukti the jiva desires the opposite of it.

      The very basis of this principle, either sarira-sariri or sesha-seshi is seva. Seva is missing in sayujya mukti. Therefore, Vaisnavas abhor it.

  • Sunayana d.d. July 30, 2014

    -“Sancita karma is stored in the prakriti and lies there inactive. Prakriti is the unmanifest state or the causal state of matter.”
    Does this mean, that the individual souls in the body of Vishnu
    keep some kind of bondage to their (in prakriti stored) previous karma,
    which later on continues in the state, where it previously ended?
    Is there a scriptural comment on this?
    Haribol! Sunayana

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